ET Internal Comms, Discussing Public Excess Deaths Analysis
M Bell made this Official Information request to Health New Zealand
The request was refused by Health New Zealand.
From: M Bell
Dear Health New Zealand,
Please provide all internal communications between the members of the executive team for Health NZ including meeting minutes, instant messages etc that discuss the response / damage control in relation to the ongoing analysis of the leaked vaccination data indicating very significant safety signals for death. (refer https://kirschsubstack.com/). For search purposes it can be focused on communications after November 1 2023.
Yours faithfully,
M Bell
From: hnzOIA
Health New Zealand
Tēnā koe,
Thank you for contacting Te Whatu Ora, Health NZ. This is an automatic
reply to confirm that we have received your email. Depending on the
nature of your request you may not receive a response for up to 20 working
days. We will try to respond to your query as quickly as possible.
Ngā mihi
Te Whatu Ora, Health NZ.
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From: hnzOIA
Health New Zealand
Tēnā koe M Bell
Thank you for your email of 23 December 2023, asking for the following
information under the Official Information Act 1982 (the Act):
"Please provide all internal communications between the members of the
executive team for Health NZ including meeting minutes, instant messages
etc that discuss the response / damage control in relation to the ongoing
analysis of the leaked vaccination data indicating very significant safety
signals for death. (refer
https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlo...).
For search purposes it can be focused on communications after November 1
2023."
This email is to let you know that Te Whatu Ora needs more time to make a
decision on your request.
The Act requires that we advise you of our decision on your request no
later than 20 working days after the day we received your request.
Unfortunately, it will not be possible to meet that time limit and we are
therefore writing to notify you of an extension of the time to make our
decision, to 21 March 2024.
This extension is required because the consultations necessary to make a
decision on your request are such that a proper response cannot reasonably
be made within the original time limit.
If you have any questions, please contact us at [1][Health New Zealand request email]
If you are not happy with this extension, you have the right to make a
complaint to the Ombudsman. Information about how to do this is available
at www.ombudsman.parliament.nz or by phoning 0800 802 602.
Nāku iti noa, nā
Government Services
Health New Zealand | Te Whatu Ora
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From: hnzOIA
Health New Zealand
Kia ora M Bell
I refer to your request for official information, received on 23 December
2023, for:
“Please provide all internal communications between the members of the
executive team for Health NZ including meeting minutes, instant messages
etc that discuss the response / damage control in relation to the ongoing
analysis of the leaked vaccination data indicating very significant safety
signals for death. (refer
https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlo...)
[\"https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlo...)\"].
For search purposes it can be focused on communications after November 1
2023."
An initial search has generated a substantial amount of information
potentially in scope of your request. In order to provide you with the
information requested, could you please refine the scope of your
request, so we can collate the information in a manner that is feasibly
retrievable. We appreciate you are under no obligation to amend your
request, but requests that require substantial collation may be refused
under section 18(f) of the OIA.
Could you please let us know if you wish to refine your reqest, and if
applicable how you would like to refine your request, by COB Friday 1
March 2024.
Ngâ mihi
Government Services
[1][Health New Zealand request email]
Health New Zealand | Te Whatu Ora
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From: M Bell
Dear hnzOIA,
I appreciate you consulting with me on the response.
Please advise approximately how many items of information potentially in the scope of my request were generated in the initial search?
If my request is validly refusable under 18(f) of the OIA 1982 then please refine to focus only on the communications of Margie Apa, to and from the HNZ Executive Team.
Yours sincerely,
M Bell
From: hnzOIA
Health New Zealand
Kia ora M Bell,
Thank you for your request for information. Please find attached our
response to your request.
If you have any questions, please get in touch at
[1][Health New Zealand request email].
If you are not happy with this response, you have the right to make a
complaint to the Ombudsman. Information about how to do this is available
at [2]www.ombudsman.parliament.nz or by phoning 0800 802 602.
Ngā mihi,
Government Services
[3][Health New Zealand request email]
Health New Zealand | Te Whatu Ora
****************************************************************************
Statement of confidentiality: This e-mail message and any accompanying
attachments may contain information that is IN-CONFIDENCE and subject to
legal privilege.
If you are not the intended recipient, do not read, use, disseminate,
distribute or copy this message or attachments.
If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender
immediately and delete this message.
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2. file:///tmp/foiextract20240305-34-1c5fhnc#
3. mailto:[Health New Zealand request email]
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From: M Bell
Dear hnzOIA,
From personal experience doing this type of stuff I know it is not that hard to supply filtered correspondence from 1 person’s office account utilizing the modern suite of tools available. Reading through 18(f) of the act and also the ombudsman’s guide to 18(f) it does not appear you have discharged your responsibility to comply with the act. If it was genuinely the case that substantial collation as per 18(f) needed for the existing scope, why did you not consult with me to further refine, or offer alternative suggestions?
Yours sincerely,
M Bell
From: hnzOIA
Kia ora M Bell,
Thank you for your request for information. Please find attached our
response to your request.
If you have any questions, please get in touch at
[1][email address].
If you are not happy with this response, you have the right to make a
complaint to the Ombudsman. Information about how to do this is available
at [2]www.ombudsman.parliament.nz or by phoning 0800 802 602.
Ngā mihi,
Government Services
[3][email address]
Health New Zealand | Te Whatu Ora
Statement of confidentiality: This email message and any accompanying
attachments may contain information that is IN-CONFIDENCE and subject to
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received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and
delete this message
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From: M Bell
Dear hnzOIA,
I struggle to accept the claim that 18(f) applies, as office 365 could easily filter and provide output for this communication.
Please refine the request to email communication only, focused on Margie Apa's email box to the Health NZ executive team between the dates of Nov 27 2023 and February 29 2024. If this is still refusable under 18(f) of the act please provide a very specific explanation in what way that is the case, and also provide alternative suggestions that could make this information available.
As another suggested alternative please provide any meeting minutes of the Health NZ ET discussing this subject from November 23 through to March 24 inclusive.
Yours sincerely,
M Bell
From: hnzOIA
Kia ora M Bell,
Thank you for your request for official information, received on 5 April
2024 for:
“Please refine the request to email communication only, focused on Margie
Apa's email box to the Health NZ executive team between the dates of Nov
27 2023 and February 29 2024. If this is still refusable under 18(f) of
the act please provide a very specific explanation in what way that is the
case, and also provide alternative suggestions that could make this
information available."
For context, the request above refers to your previous request for:
“Please provide all internal communications between the members of the
executive team for Health NZ including meeting minutes, instant messages
etc that discuss the response / damage control in relation to the ongoing
analysis of the leaked vaccination data…”
Please accept our apologies for not being in touch sooner. Even with this
refined scope, an initial search has generated a significant amount of
information that is potentially in scope of your request, which is likely
to take significant time and resources to work through. We appreciate you
are under no obligation to amend your request, but requests that require
substantial collation may be refused under section 18(f) of the OIA.
We want to work with you to avoid this and ensure we are able to provide a
response that best meets your needs. Would you be willing to refine your
request to cover dates between 27 November 2023 and 11 December 2023,
inclusive?
Please let us know before COB Thursday 9 May 2024 whether you are prepared
to amend your request.
Please note that even with a further refined scope, it will still take us
time to review information identified in scope. For this reason, Health NZ
is also extending the time available to respond to your request, to 18
June 2024.
This extension is required because the volume of information and the
consultations necessary to make a decision on your request are such that a
proper response cannot reasonably be made within the original time limit.
We look forward to receiving your response.
Ngâ mihi
Government Services
[1][email address]
Health New Zealand | Te Whatu Ora
Statement of confidentiality: This email message and any accompanying
attachments may contain information that is IN-CONFIDENCE and subject to
legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, do not read, use,
disseminate, distribute or copy this message or attachments. If you have
received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and
delete this message
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From: M Bell
Dear hnzOIA,
I appreciate the renewed attempt at consultation, thankyou.
When you ask "Would you be willing to refine your request to cover dates between 27 November 2023 and 11 December 2023, inclusive?" there are several questions that arise before I can respond with understanding....
(a) clarification, is the suggested refinement with respect to all communications as originally asked or for Margie Apa's email only?
(b) what is the reasoning for offering the refinement to between those specific dates? ie is it because that represents a certain quantity of messages?
(c) what are the general thresholds for 18(f) that you are working to?
(d) if reducing the administrative burden is the main issue potentially triggering 18(f), are there meeting minutes that could be provided as an alternative to correspondence?
Yours sincerely,
M Bell
From: hnzOIA
Kia ora,
Thank you for your email. To address your queries in turn:
(a) clarification, is the suggested refinement with respect to all
communications as originally asked or for Margie Apa's email only?
This suggested date range would use your refined scope of "email
communication only, focused on Margie Apa's email box to the Health NZ
executive team"
(b) what is the reasoning for offering the refinement to between those
specific dates? ie is it because that represents a certain quantity of
messages?
We are suggesting these dates as it is a shorter period of time
immediately following the incident in question. You are welcome to suggest
an alternative time period, however please note a fortnight is likely to
be a manageable scope.
(c) what are the general thresholds for 18(f) that you are working to?
Please refer to the Ombudsman guidance at:
[1]www.ombudsman.parliament.nz/resources/substantial-collation-or-research-guide-section-18f-oia-and-section-17f-lgoima.
(d) if reducing the administrative burden is the main issue potentially
triggering 18(f), are there meeting minutes that could be provided as an
alternative to correspondence?
Our initial view is that a refined date scope, as suggested, will likely
enable Health NZ to respond to your request.
Please let us know before COB Friday 24 May 2024 whether you are prepared
to amend your request to the following:
Please refine the request to email communication only, focused on Margie
Apa's email box to the Health NZ executive team between the dates of
November 27 2023 and December 11 2023.
You have the right to make a complaint to the Ombudsman. Information about
how to do this is available at [2]www.ombudsman.parliament.nz or by
phoning 0800 802 602.
Ngā mihi
Government Services
[3][email address]
Health New Zealand | Te Whatu Ora
------------------- Original Message -------------------
From: M Bell <[FOI #25291 email]>;
Received: Mon May 06 2024 16:09:55 GMT+1200 (New Zealand Standard Time)
To: hnzOIA <[email address]>; HNZ OIA
<[email address]>;
Subject: Re: Refinement needed and extension of timeframe for your request
for information, HNZ00043207 CRM:0195415
Dear hnzOIA,
I appreciate the renewed attempt at consultation, thankyou.
When you ask "Would you be willing to refine your request to cover dates
between 27 November 2023 and 11 December 2023, inclusive?" there are
several questions that arise before I can respond with understanding....
(a) clarification, is the suggested refinement with respect to all
communications as originally asked or for Margie Apa's email only?
(b) what is the reasoning for offering the refinement to between those
specific dates? ie is it because that represents a certain quantity of
messages?
(c) what are the general thresholds for 18(f) that you are working to?
(d) if reducing the administrative burden is the main issue potentially
triggering 18(f), are there meeting minutes that could be provided as an
alternative to correspondence?
Yours sincerely,
M Bell
-----Original Message-----
Kia ora M Bell,
Thank you for your request for official information, received on 5 April
2024 for:
“Please refine the request to email communication only, focused on Margie
Apa's email box to the Health NZ executive team between the dates of Nov
27 2023 and February 29 2024. If this is still refusable under 18(f) of
the act please provide a very specific explanation in what way that is
the
case, and also provide alternative suggestions that could make this
information available."
For context, the request above refers to your previous request for:
“Please provide all internal communications between the members of the
executive team for Health NZ including meeting minutes, instant messages
etc that discuss the response / damage control in relation to the ongoing
analysis of the leaked vaccination data…”
Please accept our apologies for not being in touch sooner. Even with this
refined scope, an initial search has generated a significant amount of
information that is potentially in scope of your request, which is likely
to take significant time and resources to work through. We appreciate you
are under no obligation to amend your request, but requests that require
substantial collation may be refused under section 18(f) of the OIA.
We want to work with you to avoid this and ensure we are able to provide
a
response that best meets your needs. Would you be willing to refine your
request to cover dates between 27 November 2023 and 11 December 2023,
inclusive?
Please let us know before COB Thursday 9 May 2024 whether you are
prepared
to amend your request.
Please note that even with a further refined scope, it will still take us
time to review information identified in scope. For this reason, Health
NZ
is also extending the time available to respond to your request, to 18
June 2024.
This extension is required because the volume of information and the
consultations necessary to make a decision on your request are such that
a
proper response cannot reasonably be made within the original time limit.
We look forward to receiving your response.
Ngâ mihi
Government Services
[1][email address]
Health New Zealand | Te Whatu Ora
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From: M Bell
Dear hnzOIA,
Please refine the request to email communication only, focused on Margie
Apa's email box to the Health NZ executive team between the dates of
November 27 2023 and December 11 2023.
Yours sincerely,
M Bell
From: hnzOIA
Kia ora
We are writing to update you on your request for information that you made
to Health New Zealand | Te Whatu Ora on 5 April 2024.
On 6 May 2024, Health NZ advised you that we would endeavour to provide
our response to your request by today, 19 June 2024. Unfortunately, this
will not be possible, as reviewing the information in scope and carrying
out the necessary consultations is taking us longer than expected, such
that we are not yet in a position to make a decision on your request. We
can assure you, however, that Health NZ is continuing to work on your
request as a priority and we will provide a response to you as soon as we
are able to.
I apologise for the delay in providing our response. The time taken is not
what we aspire to. This is something we are working to get on top of as we
deal with a high volume of requests and the understandably high public
interest in our work.
Please don’t hesitate to contact us at [1][Health New Zealand request email] if you
have any further questions.
Under section 28(3) of the Act, you have the right to make a complaint to
the Ombudsman. Information about how to do this is available at
[2]www.ombudsman.parliament.nz or by phoning 0800 802 602.
Ngâ mihi
Government Services
[3][email address]
Health New Zealand | Te Whatu Ora
Statement of confidentiality: This email message and any accompanying
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legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, do not read, use,
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received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and
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M Bell left an annotation ()
World whistleblower day today. Six months down the track with this OIA request, a drastically lowered scope (which I think is largely unwarranted) and still no response. If the eventual response has the pertinent information redacted out, at the very least that would be further confirmation as to the deliberate lack of transparency, transparency required by law through the OIA. Here is to hoping that some public servants still have a conscience and do the right thing in simply faithfully answering OIA requests.
From: M Bell
Dear hnzOIA,
You cannot just say "sorry we have not yet done what we said we would" and not at least provide any status updates without being seen as very unprofessional. As it is you are failing to comply with the OIA, the law. A complaint to the ombudsman was made back in March so you are on notice. Please supply what has been requested, refined and agreed through consultation.
Yours sincerely,
M Bell
From: hnzOIA
Kia ora,
Thank you for your request for information. Please find attached our
response to your request.
If you have any questions, please get in touch at
[1][email address].
If you are not happy with this response, you have the right to make a
complaint to the Ombudsman. Information about how to do this is available
at [2]www.ombudsman.parliament.nz or by phoning 0800 802 602.
Ngā mihi,
Government Services
[3][email address]
Health New Zealand | Te Whatu Ora
Statement of confidentiality: This email message and any accompanying
attachments may contain information that is IN-CONFIDENCE and subject to
legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, do not read, use,
disseminate, distribute or copy this message or attachments. If you have
received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and
delete this message
References
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Chris McCashin left an annotation ()
Is it any point dealing with these people?! Everything that they respond with has no substance and is effectively a cover up. It took seven months to get ten pages of curated information. It appears they are still playing the game to cover their tracks. Not that it will make any difference but on the first page Margie Apa says that Barry should get together with Leigh and have an expert review of the data. And if there are concerns Leigh can work with the National Public Health Service to review the information. Maybe ask for that? The rest of the correspondence relates to how the are trying to frame it in the media. Pointless really. I notice the question lines provided by our "Media" make no reference to reviewing the actual data. How is data "misinformation". Everyone at Health NZ and especially our media should be ashamed
From: M Bell
Dear hnzOIA,
So all this drawn out to and fro about substantial collation yet there were only 9 email documents in the specified period, and of those 9 you are flat out refusing 4 of them. Really?
I’m marking this response as refused as it is so sanitized and redacted that it is not even a valid response. This appears to be a deliberate failure to provide the transparency required by law under the OIA for purposes of damage control.
I’m not buying it. My existing complaint with the ombudsman will be challenging your claims of justification for redacting and withholding the documents under the stated clauses of the act, and to compare with the public interest test.
Yours sincerely,
M Bell
Things to do with this request
- Add an annotation (to help the requester or others)
- Download a zip file of all correspondence
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Chris McCashin left an annotation ()
This seems even more pertinent following another medical event to a super fit young father. Condolences. Health New Zealand it’s time to come clean. What are verifiable facts
- pathologists don’t do correct tests to determine causation hence no vaccine deaths
- Health NZ are trying to wipe the Internet
- Health NZ haven’t refuted the analysis done by data experts overseas
- Instead they are trying to lock up a whistleblower and cover tracks
If there was nothing to see they wouldn’t be doing all of this to hide things. Innocent people don’t attempt to hide things. Let’s start looking at all the cover ups during the roll out of all the CHILDREN that perished. Devastating
Link to this