Caitlyn Spice story, Fairfax 5th July 2019

Rich Seager made this Official Information request to NetSafe Incorporated

The request was refused by NetSafe Incorporated.

From: Rich Seager

Dear NetSafe Incorporated,

please confirm whether or not you restricted any websites from appearing in searches in relation to the Caitlyn Spice story that ran in Fairfax on the 5th July, 2019 in which you were also mentioned.

Thank you for your co-operation.

Yours faithfully,

Rich Seager

Link to this

From: Netsafe NZ

##- Please type your reply above this line -##

Thank you for contacting Netsafe.

Your complaint reference is 64101, you will need to quote this if you wish
to discuss your complaint with us.

We always act with respect and discretion when you discuss things with us,
but sometimes, we might need to tell someone else. This could happen, for
example, if we think you or another could be seriously harmed. Breaking a
person’s confidentiality is not something we do unless we absolutely have
to. And we always think about this carefully before we do it.

CAUTION
The contents of this message and any attachments are confidential and may
be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, then any
distribution, reproduction or other use of this communication is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please
immediately destroy/delete it and telephone or email us at our cost to let
us know. Thank you.
[GDE50O-XVQ2]

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From: Rich Seager

Dear NetSafe Incorporated,

thank you for your automated message. As you should realize this has been filed via fyi.org.nz which is very kindly hosted by the New Zealand Herald owners.

So you see it is already public. You can tell who you want.

I'd also add that I want all correspondence that you had with any agency or organization on this story that was published in Fairfax. For your reference here is a link to the story as it appears currently;

https://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digit...

Thanks.

Yours faithfully,

Rich Seager

Link to this

From: Helen O'Toole
NetSafe Incorporated

Thank you for your correspondence.

We can confirm that we did not restrict any websites from appearing in
searches in relation to the Caitlyn Spice story that ran in Fairfax on the
5th July, 2019 and that we had no contact with  any agency or organization
on the story.

Kind regards,
Netsafe

Helen O'Toole | Director of Operations | Netsafe |0508 NETSAFE (638 723)
| 021 819312 |  [1]www.netsafe.org.nz

CAUTION

The contents of this message and any attachments are confidential and may
be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, then any
distribution, reproduction or other use of this communication is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please
immediately destroy/delete it and telephone or email us at our cost to let
us know. Thank you.

References

Visible links
1. http://www.netsafe.org.nz/

Link to this

From: Rich Seager

Dear Helen O'Toole,

As Netsafe CEO Martin Cocker is quoted in the story there must have been some contact between Fairfax and himself.

I therefore amend the request;

Please provide all emails or notes/diairising from your organisation, or of any of your employees including your CEO including any affiliated organisations either in New Zealand or not, in regard to anything related to the story that was run in Fairfax on 5th July 2019 on Caitlin Spice. Please include any correspondence of you, or any employee/affiliate, that had any contact with any agency/organisation about this story. For your reference here is a link to the story.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digit...

Thanks.

Yours sincerely,

Rich Seager

Link to this

From: Rich Seager

Dear Helen O'Toole,

Please append the following (in quotes) to my last request;

"or any other correspondence on this story in any form from any of the above Netsafe or related persons/agencies/organisations. Please provide such correspondence in unencrypted form."

Yours sincerely,

Rich Seager

Link to this

From: Netsafe Helpdesk (Netsafe NZ)

##- Please type your reply above this line -##

Your report (64101) has been updated. To add additional comments, reply to
this email

Netsafe Helpdesk (Netsafe NZ)

14 Jul., 16:56 NZST

Thank you for your further correspondence.

Netsafe will consider and respond to your request in accordance with the
Official Information Act 1982. The Act allows up to 20 working days for a
response, making 8th August 2019 the latest date for our response to you,
unless an extension is required. 

Many thanks,
Netsafe

CAUTION
The contents of this message and any attachments are confidential and may
be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, then any
distribution, reproduction or other use of this communication is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please
immediately destroy/delete it and telephone or email us at our cost to let
us know. Thank you.
[GDE50O-XVQ2]

Link to this

From: Rich Seager

Dear NetSafe Incorporated,

just reminding you that a response is due by tomorrow (cob I assume).

Yours faithfully,

Rich Seager

Link to this

From: Help
NetSafe Incorporated

Thank you for contacting Netsafe.

We will endeavour to respond within the next 24 hours. If you have more
information that you would like to provide about this report, or if you
would like to talk to someone directly, please call us toll-free on 0508
NETSAFE (0508 638 723). Our helpline is open from 8am till 8pm Monday to
Friday, and 9am till 5pm Saturday and Sunday.

In the meantime, you might like to look at the [1]Netsafe website to find
information and advice about staying safe and secure online.

If at any time you believe you or another person is in danger, or a crime
is being committed, call 111 immediately or visit your [2]nearest Police
Station. If you’re not based in New Zealand please contact your local law
enforcement agency

Netsafe

 

CAUTION

The contents of this message and any attachments are confidential and may
be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, then any
distribution, reproduction or other use of this communication is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please
immediately destroy/delete it and telephone or email us at our cost to let
us know. Thank you.

References

Visible links
1. https://www.netsafe.org.nz/
2. http://www.police.govt.nz/contact-us/sta...

Link to this

From: Netsafe Helpdesk (Netsafe NZ)

##- Please type your reply above this line -##

Your report (64101) has been updated. To add additional comments, reply to
this email

Netsafe Helpdesk (Netsafe NZ)

7 Aug., 16:25 NZST

Dear Mr Seager,

On 11 July 2019 you requested copies of all emails or notes from Netsafe
or its employees in regards to the story run in Fairfax on 5 July 2019 on
Caitlin Spice.  We have considered your request in accordance with the
Official Information Act 1982. 

We have attached copies of all emails held by Netsafe that fall within the
scope of your request.  Netsafe does not hold any notes or copy of any
audio file of the phone conversation between Martin Cocker and the
journalist involved. 

Contact details in the emails have been redacted to protect the privacy of
the persons involved.

You have the right under section 28(3) of the Official Information Act
1982 to seek an investigation and review by the Ombudsman of our decision.

Regards,
Netsafe.

Attachment(s)
[1]110719 - RS - RFI_Redacted.pdf

CAUTION
The contents of this message and any attachments are confidential and may
be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, then any
distribution, reproduction or other use of this communication is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please
immediately destroy/delete it and telephone or email us at our cost to let
us know. Thank you.
[GDE50O-XVQ2]

References

Visible links
1. https://report.netsafe.org.nz/attachment...

Link to this

From: Rich Seager

Dear NetSafe Incorporated,

thank you for the emails of this series of conversations. I note that the first 3 or 4 seem to be missing.

Anyway in those emails you included the following as suggestions for the sidebar of the article;

"3.Keep evidence: Save texts and emails and take screenshots of anything that might disappear later. Make sure you keep track of dates, what has happened, who you think did it and why."

I know myself how important it can be to keep notes of telephone conversations or meetings. I can't imagine that you don't accord to that same philosophy. Can you please therefore confirm whether you know of any notes or recordings of the telephone conversations or any meetings with Fairfax by anyone associated with, or working with or alongside, Netsafe regarding this story.

Also I've searched for the chainsaw threat to @catespice on Twitter. You may be interested to know that it is probably from Steph Dyhrberg. It is the only result searching on @catespice & 'chainsaw'. It looks to me to be friendly chatter about aubergines (cheap at the moment, I purchased one for a $1.39 yesterday). I only give you this information as you, or @catespice, may wish to prosecute or to pass this information along to the police.

https://twitter.com/StephDyhrberg/status...

Cheers.

Yours faithfully,

Rich Seager

Link to this

From: Help
NetSafe Incorporated

Thank you for contacting Netsafe.

We will endeavour to respond within the next 24 hours. If you have more
information that you would like to provide about this report, or if you
would like to talk to someone directly, please call us toll-free on 0508
NETSAFE (0508 638 723). Our helpline is open from 8am till 8pm Monday to
Friday, and 9am till 5pm Saturday and Sunday.

In the meantime, you might like to look at the [1]Netsafe website to find
information and advice about staying safe and secure online.

If at any time you believe you or another person is in danger, or a crime
is being committed, call 111 immediately or visit your [2]nearest Police
Station. If you’re not based in New Zealand please contact your local law
enforcement agency

Netsafe

 

CAUTION

The contents of this message and any attachments are confidential and may
be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, then any
distribution, reproduction or other use of this communication is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please
immediately destroy/delete it and telephone or email us at our cost to let
us know. Thank you.

References

Visible links
1. https://www.netsafe.org.nz/
2. http://www.police.govt.nz/contact-us/sta...

Link to this

From: Rich Seager

Dear NetSafe Incorporated,

on July 11th 2019 you made this statement in response to this OIA request of mine;

"and that we had no contact with any agency or organization on the story."

As your August 7th response to my rewording of my request shows this was not true. In other words it was a lie. As Martin Cocker was quoted in the article it was also a pretty obvious lie.

I note too that Angela Boundy is also known as Angela Boundy Cocker.

In addition your pdf was provided via a link to your agency that of course gives you access to any IP address of anyone downloading it, and possibly other information, rather than provided as an attachment as most responders to this website use which of course provides no further information on the respondent’s IP address etc (unless coded into the pdf of course but that requires quite some subterfuge).

Your statement therefore of August 7th that “Netsafe does not hold any notes or copy of any audio file of the phone conversation between Martin Cocker and the journalist involved.“ is of no conseqence other than it is another indication that your agency seems to be the least transparent agency subject to the OIA. It does not matter to me if you don’t ‘hold them’. This OIA request still requires you to provide them whether you currently ‘hold them’ or not.

I also remind you that these notes or recordings are not limited to those between Martin Cocker and the journalist. I also note that you seem to have provided no information about the first emails in this series of correspondence to bring you and the Fairfax journalist together on the article, other than that they exist and seem to indicate another person or agency is also involved. I would like these to be included.

Please therefore respond to my request of August 7th, 2019. I advise you that this is not a new request and that you therefore need to respond immediately as the 20 working days has already passed.

I want all correspondence on this issue.

Not only will I pass this on to the ombudsman if you do not respond adequately but I will also set out to attempt to have your private agency removed from its current State role for not being fit for purpose.

Yours faithfully,

Rich Seager

Link to this

From: Help
NetSafe Incorporated

Thank you for contacting Netsafe.

We will endeavour to respond within the next 24 hours. If you have more
information that you would like to provide about this report, or if you
would like to talk to someone directly, please call us toll-free on 0508
NETSAFE (0508 638 723). Our helpline is open from 8am till 8pm Monday to
Friday, and 9am till 5pm Saturday and Sunday.

In the meantime, you might like to look at the [1]Netsafe website to find
information and advice about staying safe and secure online.

If at any time you believe you or another person is in danger, or a crime
is being committed, call 111 immediately or visit your [2]nearest Police
Station. If you’re not based in New Zealand please contact your local law
enforcement agency

Netsafe

 

CAUTION

The contents of this message and any attachments are confidential and may
be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, then any
distribution, reproduction or other use of this communication is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please
immediately destroy/delete it and telephone or email us at our cost to let
us know. Thank you.

References

Visible links
1. https://www.netsafe.org.nz/
2. http://www.police.govt.nz/contact-us/sta...

Link to this

Roger Wilson left an annotation ()

Hi Rich,
Regarding your reply to NetSafe stating that "It does not matter to me if you don’t ‘hold them’".

Be aware that not holding requested information is a legitatmate reason for refusing a request under 18(g) of the OIA.

Link to this

Rich Seager left an annotation ()

Thanks Roger. I shall reword it a little.

I don't believe that they don't have these notes or recordings. 'They' in my view being anyone associated with Netsafe. In this case I think that it's very likely that Martin or Angela have them and that Netsafe is playing word games here.

Link to this

From: Rich Seager

Dear NetSafe Incorporated,

in my last response I stated that "It does not matter to me if you don’t ‘hold them’. This OIA request still requires you to provide them whether you currently ‘hold them’ or not."

Someone has pointed out that this seems to specifically refer to section 18(g) of the Official Information Act 1982 (the Act) rather than just be your wording.

Please note that my intent here was that I do not view any employee or associate holding these documents or recordings as being a separate entity from Netsafe for the purposes of this OIA request. Please therefore note that this part of my response "as quoted in my previous paragraph" should have read;

"It does not matter to me if you, as an organisation, don’t ‘hold them’. This OIA request still requires you to provide them whether you as a company, or any employees or associates, are the ones who currently ‘hold them’."

I assume that you have access to them, and in my view this means that you do 'hold them' so where-ever they are I want to see them.

I am assuming from the language of your reply that they do exist. Please confirm that this is correct on my part and that they do exist.

If they do not exist, please advise when you destroyed them.

If a government agency held them at the time of my original request you are obligated by the Act to pass this request on to them.

Cheers.

Yours faithfully,

Rich Seager

Link to this

From: Help
NetSafe Incorporated

Thank you for contacting Netsafe.

We will endeavour to respond within the next 24 hours. If you have more
information that you would like to provide about this report, or if you
would like to talk to someone directly, please call us toll-free on 0508
NETSAFE (0508 638 723). Our helpline is open from 8am till 8pm Monday to
Friday, and 9am till 5pm Saturday and Sunday.

In the meantime, you might like to look at the [1]Netsafe website to find
information and advice about staying safe and secure online.

If at any time you believe you or another person is in danger, or a crime
is being committed, call 111 immediately or visit your [2]nearest Police
Station. If you’re not based in New Zealand please contact your local law
enforcement agency

Netsafe

 

CAUTION

The contents of this message and any attachments are confidential and may
be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, then any
distribution, reproduction or other use of this communication is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please
immediately destroy/delete it and telephone or email us at our cost to let
us know. Thank you.

References

Visible links
1. https://www.netsafe.org.nz/
2. http://www.police.govt.nz/contact-us/sta...

Link to this

From: Netsafe Helpdesk (Netsafe NZ)

##- Please type your reply above this line -##

Your report (64101) has been updated. To add additional comments, reply to
this email

Netsafe Helpdesk (Netsafe NZ)

13 Aug., 15:43 NZST

Thank you for your recent correspondence. You have made the following
points:

1. Netsafe did engage with a journalist but responded to say that "we had
not contact with any agency or organisation on the story":
Our response to this question was read in light of the request you made
to "confirm whether or not you restricted any websites from appearing in
searches in relation to the Caitlyn Spice story that ran in Fairfax". We
understood this question to therefore be whether as a result of the story
by Fairfax Netsafe contacted any Online Content Host (OCH) or Internet
Service provider (ISP). The answer to this is no. Netsafe was contacted by
Fairfax as the journalist wrote the story and that chain of emails has
been released to you.

2. You question why Netsafe "does not hold" call recordings or notes
relating to the conversation with the journalist:
Our CEO and Engagement team are contacted daily to comment on stories. It
is standard process to request from a journalist clarification of their
request and questions they want answering. Sometimes a brief may be
prepared for the CEO before speaking with a journalist and sometimes he
will respond directly without the need for a briefing depending on the
nature of the enquiry. In this instance our CEO responded directly. No
notes are taken of conversations with journalists and no phones are
recorded outside of our Contact Centre therefore there are no call
recordings.

3. The PDF response was sent via a link:
All our responses are provided through our case management system Zendesk
and attachments added where required.

We hope that this has answered your further questions. 

If you are unhappy with our response I would like to remind you that you
have the right under section 28(3) of the Official Information Act 1982 to
seek an investigation and review by the Ombudsman.

In addition given that you have posed many questions on how our CEO
handles media stories and have expressed wider concerns he would be
willing to talk to you directly and address these. If you would be
interested in doing this then please let us know and we can arrange a
suitable time.

Regards,
Netsafe

CAUTION
The contents of this message and any attachments are confidential and may
be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, then any
distribution, reproduction or other use of this communication is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please
immediately destroy/delete it and telephone or email us at our cost to let
us know. Thank you.
[GDE50O-XVQ2]

Link to this

From: Rich Seager

Dear NetSafe Incorporated,

as soon as I get the time this one is going off to the ombudsman. I think your responses have been very poor. You undoubtedly have more records of these conversations that you want to acknowledge.

Yours faithfully,

Rich Seager

Link to this

From: Help
NetSafe Incorporated

Thank you for contacting Netsafe.

We will endeavour to respond within the next 24 hours. If you have more
information that you would like to provide about this report, or if you
would like to talk to someone directly, please call us toll-free on 0508
NETSAFE (0508 638 723). Our helpline is open from 8am till 8pm Monday to
Friday, and 9am till 5pm Saturday and Sunday.

In the meantime, you might like to look at the [1]Netsafe website to find
information and advice about staying safe and secure online.

If at any time you believe you or another person is in danger, or a crime
is being committed, call 111 immediately or visit your [2]nearest Police
Station. If you’re not based in New Zealand please contact your local law
enforcement agency

Netsafe

 

CAUTION

The contents of this message and any attachments are confidential and may
be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, then any
distribution, reproduction or other use of this communication is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please
immediately destroy/delete it and telephone or email us at our cost to let
us know. Thank you.

References

Visible links
1. https://www.netsafe.org.nz/
2. http://www.police.govt.nz/contact-us/sta...

Link to this

From: Rich Seager

Dear NetSafe Incorporated,

classified as 'refused' due to your original refusal (backed up by a lie) which was then followed by a partial refusal that only included a few emails that you (quite obviously grudgingly) released. You also did not make it clear that you were not releasing some of the initial emails and then made a statement that denied that other recording materials of these conversations were available when in fact they (almost certainly) are.

Of my 13 OIA requests on this platform* you are the least transparent responder.

Yours faithfully,

Rich Seager

* some homework for you.

Link to this

Things to do with this request

Anyone:
NetSafe Incorporated only: